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Talk

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talk

The day-page-set for the talk in the en-diki-center-wiki

Or read the day-page-set "talk" with preceding explanations.

edit the day-page "talk" for this minute edit the day-page "talk" for this minute.

2007-07-24 09h16 Talk

giant remix

MattisManzel:
Sam mentioned the diki experiments on community-wiki: community repository.

I was busy with “beautifing” in between, sorry. There are icons for the different feeds now. OddWiki:CollabEditor/AllFeeds.

We should now go on here, there’s a giant remix hidden. ;)

2007-05-16 16h53 Talk

MattisManzel:
Cool. Half of it is working already: The packaging. See the talk-package 2007-05-05. Maybe talk-bin would be a better (as shorter) term than talk-package?

The other half is to cut all the already packaged talk out of the current talk (and I have no idea how to do that). If the current talk starts with the contribution following the last contribution in the youngest talk-package we won’t have to scroll down for miles anymore to read the last contribution.
Remember this is not only for talk, but for also for topical pages. The beautiful [DocumentMode? document-mode] wiki page on top, followed by the most recent talk about it. Topping this current talk a link to the preceding talk-package. Topping that talk-package page another link to the next earlier talk-package and so on. And on the bottom of every talk-package a link to the following talk-package (the youngest talk-package links to the current talk instead).

2007-05-14 12h48 Talk

MattisManzel:
Sam said for journal there is reverse, past and future. We will need something more, I guess. Either

  • something to grab a certain number of day-pages - No.1 to 10, 11 to 20, 21 to 30 … That would be good for a non topical talk (like this one). Or
  • something to grab day-pages until the community signalizes: This talk ends here and a new one is started This could happen by inserting something to the text (like <new package> or so) that makes the software understand that the community wants a fresh page and it supplies one automatically. I guess that would be more suitable for topical talks. Many pages have phases of activity and then again aren’t written on for a year. One could make the packages like talk-chapters (and even give them titles).

Automatisation later. I try to do it manually on TalkPackage 2007-05-05

2007-05-08 09h57 Talk

MattisManzel:
Ok. This is our talk page and it adds new text at the end. We talked a bit and now scrolling gets tiresome as the page is too long already. It should be shortened. I’ll try to fake what finally should happen with a single click (but not automatically).

We have eight talk entries in the talk here. Only this one should stay here on the page talk. All the former seven ones go to another page, name unclear, “earlier talk” or so. On this page you see included journal no. 1 to 7. At the end of the page is a link “later talk” that takes you back here.

Whenever the talk page gets too long a new page is created moving the “talk snapshot” over to it and leaving the talk page short (but not empty). All these talk snapshot pages are connected nose to tail so you can step though the entire talk since the very beginning of it. How to do that?

That is my idea for the talk, it might have to be handled slightly different with a topical page that has a condensed document mode contents on top and is discussed and developed in the talk below. Maybe not. Maybe it just works the same.

They might be called talk-packages. TalkPackage?1 → TalkPackage?2 → TalkPackage?3 :) Better with the date of the first contribution on it TalkPackage 2007-05-05.

Hmm, and maybe there should be a feed for them? Sure there should.

TalkPackagePages? thus. A day-page-set?

Well.

2007-05-07 18h35 Talk

MattisManzel:
(wrong) Yes, the new day is on top now as I do not use reverse anymore. But then also the new minute-page is on top which reverts reading sequence. It should add at the end of the day chronologically. (/wrong)

We can then use the mother page for pure document mode, current discussion thread following. Dates only mark the beginning of the discussion. When the thread is getting too long we make a “snapshot” of the page-set. We copy the mother-page and the thread to a new page. Only the last one or two contributions to the discussion remain for continuency and we can carry on with a rather fresh short page. Linking on top of the thread to the former snapshot and (later, when this one is also “snapshotten”) at the end to the following one.

Hmm, I’m confused, the above is wrong. Adding new days at the end is perfect, reverse is it. I want to be able to archive a long thread and the document mode mother page at a certain stage and continue on the same page which is shortened. I also want to be able to display the whole thread for those who want to read all of it. And we definitely need the feed for every single contribution (that’s why diki, all the other issues could be achieved also on (24h) day-pages).

I putting back reverse. Sorry for not being clearer at the moment. I think it’s quite there already. We might not even need to change the code. A pity I didn’t quite read kensanata well about reverse a year ago. I remember having seen it but I had a burst of ideas then and didn’t properly read.

Having the former minute-contributions displayed in edit mode is still to be solved. So you can read what you are answering to. That works quite elegantly if the comments are activated. It does not without them. It should.

2007-05-07 11h19 Talk

MattisManzel:
irc.freenode #oddmuse 2 days ago or so.

(21:32:07) SamRose: mattis^: what is the problem that the diki is trying to solve, or what is the set of problems?
(21:36:24) mattis^: Sam, nice, I have to get in it myself again. Problem = current discussions must be closer to the top of the page. You look at / read maybe the last three entries, I want these under the document mode. And the feeds for every contribution.
(21:43:22) SamRose: mattis^: so, diki would automate discussions into a "newest first" layout? Is that right?
(21:45:17) mattis^: not on a day-page else yes. Day-pages mark beginnings of discussions, you add days later to it (that's why ~~~~ is important).
(21:47:22) SamRose: mattis^: hmmm...so, for example with the way that we discuss on EnObmCenter....We just cram all of our discussion into "today" as it is right now. But with diki, our related discussions would persist into new day pages, is that right?
(21:56:35) mattis^: We could (should even) do it on obm-center as well. Answer days later to a topic started then it's still not too deep down on the page. Therefore the bold titles (as a kind of proposal for a page name, in case the thread gets fruitful) and the lineshift behind the leading user-name. You see ~~~~ dates better then.
(21:58:53) mattis^: The difference on diki are the feeds for contributions. There is some giant remix about it. ;)
(22:04:41) SamRose: mattis^: how do the feeds work?
(22:05:29) mattis^: Every contribution is a timestamped day-page and has its own feed.
(22:06:24) mattis^: If you answer fast it's only a minute later
(22:06:58) SamRose: mattis^: ah, so instead of "day pages" it's really like "minute" pages?
(22:07:06) mattis^: yes
(22:07:40) mattis^: within a day 24h time they should sort newest on the bottom
(22:07:40) SamRose: mattis^: so, let me get it right...each minute page has it's own seperate feed?
(22:08:02) mattis^: it's a normal page and has a feed
(22:09:49) SamRose: so, if within a day 24h they should sort newest on the bottom, where does the newest first display come into play?
(22:11:55) SamRose: (sorry to keep asking questions, I am just trying to visualize)
(22:12:09) mattis^: The threads (= "titeled" days) started earlier are further up. 
(22:13:09) mattis^: (ask, ask, ask.)
(22:13:32) SamRose: oh wait, after looking at http://www.oddwiki.org/odd/SandDiki/FirstDikiPagePages, I think I get it.
(22:13:57) mattis^: it's not quite there in my head, but I think we're approaching.
(22:14:18) mattis^: me and my head, know?
(22:15:17) SamRose: a diki page is really just a wiki page with daypages appended to it
(22:15:35) mattis^: yes
(22:16:29) mattis^: the mother pages (for the condensed contents) they're all just wiki pages.
(22:16:48) mattis^: the rest is talk and preparation
(22:19:50) TheSheep: basically blogs with categories and editing
(22:19:50) SamRose: I think I get it now, and the problem it is trying to solve. I like the newest first. Although, it would be cool one day to allow the reader to sort the view in their own way, too. Like to filter out just contributions by certain people, or just contributions with certain words in them
(22:20:56) SamRose: TheSheep: well, in most wiki, they are using mixed-mode DocumentMode pages with ThreadMode discussion manually appended. So, this is kind of an automation of that, I guess..
(22:21:45) TheSheep: *shrug*
(22:22:00) SamRose: There is something about mattis^'s idea that resonates with HansWobbe's idea , too, of "MicroBlocks"
(22:22:08) TheSheep: automation gets in the way :)
(22:22:32) SamRose: depends on how you use wiki, I guess
(22:22:38) SamRose: :)
(22:22:48) mattis^: absolutely. There should be a link "see the full thread" showing the full thread like it's now for those who want to read into it. For us (who know the thread) the recent stuff near the top is enough.
(22:23:28) SamRose: mattis^: or you could just reverse order newest last/newest first
(22:23:45) SamRose: with newest first as default
(22:24:06) mattis^: hmm, I'm tangled. But they are there, I feel them 'em 3 -4 tagled ideas ;)
(22:25:39) mattis^: reverse is evil. Reading sequence is from top to bottom. I just don't want to scroll down to the neighbor two floors below to read the recent stuff.
(22:26:17) SamRose: I see
(22:26:29) SamRose: heh, while I am at it here is another idea:
(22:26:44) mattis^: the peal-diver's metaphor, saw that?
(22:26:58) SamRose: ??
(22:29:31) SamRose: here's the other idea: what if there was an "edit this page" link, and also a "include" link the "include" link asks you to type the name of a wiki page, then it imports the text of the page you are includingand the target page, and you can then work it in. This could be from a discussion, or another page...
(22:32:14) SamRose: this could make it easier to "include" discussion daypages into actual DocumentMode pages, by quickly pulling the type together into one editing window. Yet, it leaves the source page in-tact
(22:33:49) SamRose: could also work for multiple source pages to one destination page
(22:36:18) SamRose: I think we should throw blogging out of this as a metaphor for design of diki, Mattis, because the framework can be used for more than just blogging
(22:36:46) SamRose: although, it can be used for blogging, of course
(22:37:45) SamRose: I can see this being used for design, for instance. Espcially in conjunction with Inkscape.
(22:43:25) mattis^: it's "blogging" free, I renamed to face. I don't find the perl fishers.
(22:47:16) mattis^: sounds cool "include", would be awesome cross-wikilandia.
(22:48:03) mattis^: but then these license trolls come ...
(22:48:58) SamRose: mattis^: also, I can see it being used for logging data. This could be done in conjunction with something like gnuplot. Multiple sets of data could also be combined. I could use this to track soil conditions, power usage, etc. And, I could combine two sets of daypages with data logged in them
(22:49:56) SamRose: there is a hack to get OddMuse to work with GnuPlot. But, it'd be neat to think about how to put data into wikipages that can be used by data visualization programs
(22:50:28) SamRose: gnuplot is one, Prefuse is another http://prefuse.org
(22:53:29) SamRose: Communities could track crime, money flows, environmental conditions could be useful tool for a Solari
(22:56:35) SamRose: mattis^: did you need wikicopy of Sand-diki to diki-wiki-hive?
(22:58:07) mattis^: perl fisher's metaphor http://www.oddwiki.org/odd/DayPageSandWiki/2006-12-05_AboutThisWiki
(22:59:06) mattis^: sand-diki to diki-wiki-hive, yes

SamRose?: Thanks for pasting that here. It looks like the new day is starting on top?

The modes that you can put into <journal> are “reverse”, “past”, and “future”. I found these by looking right in the code itself.

I think that we are going to be able to utlimately create some modules that accomplish what you want to do. And, it will be up to us to maintain them.

Mattis, please try, in as PlainTalk? as you can do, to lay out exactly what you want as of right now. I think I might be able to modify some of the code into a module.

2007-05-06 07h10 Talk

MattisManzel:
Morning everybody, lets see how this sorts on the talk now.
Hmm, not the way I hoped it would. I hoped the new day would start on top. Well.

I removed reverse.

2007-05-05 19h40 Talk

MattisManzel:
Man, I wonder how this will sort, when the day is over and a new one beginns. …

2007-05-05 06h31 Talk

MattisManzel:
Yo, <journal 9999 "^\d\d\d\d-\d\d-\d\d_\d\dh\d\d_Talk" reverse> is cool. I hadn’t understood that before. It reverts the sequence and is exactly what I thought about. 9999 so it starts with the oldest page for the day, maximum 10000 edits per talk thread for a day, I suppose. Should be sufficient, heh!

2007-05-05 06h22 Talk

MattisManzel:
Testing the add to today’s talk button. Positive.

2007-05-05 06h17 Talk

MattisManzel:
Alright! Here is the English talk for the diki-wiki-hive.

Define external redirect: TalkPackagePages PlainTalk SamRose TalkPackage DocumentMode